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Pay To Win

Pinches

New member
Let me start this thread by debunking several claims that refute the notion that the server is pay to win or that paying provides a competitive advantage.

If the option exists, then someone will use it.
Remember this line so that I do not have to repeat myself

"The server is just pay for convenience"
While I could understand an argument like this if the store only sold items such as Masterballs, Claim Blocks, and commands (/fly, /pokeheal, /pc), you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone that Max IV mods, Millions of Pokedollars, and Tokens only provide a simple "convenience".

However, there is another side to this kind of statement. For players who do not care about tournaments or competitive battling in general, then all of the perks from the donor shop are conveniences to them.

For most people who play on this server, their end goal is to breed tirelessly, make money, and win tournaments. The last three items I mentioned that could be purchased with real money provide an enormous advantage for these people.

"Everything you can buy in the shop is obtainable without money"
This is not true and even if it was the system is still pay to win. A non-donor still has to put in several more hours of playing to obtain anything someone else can buy with real money.

Crate keys are a prime example of items that can only be obtained through the store (excluding the one Lunar you get from PM).


I am not saying you are unable to have a good time on this server if you do not donate.
Personally, I am a completely Free to Play (F2P) player and I have competed in and won several tournaments. I know that with hard work you can obtain a good competitive record. Furthermore, I am not trying to say that this server being pay to win is damaging, harmful, or risky. I understand that servers need money to maintain development and uptime which inevitably necessitates micro-transactions. Complex Gaming is also one of the most successful and popular pixelmon servers as far as I can tell. This server has made some commendable choices to make the competitive scene much more friendly to non-donors. There are numerous opportunities to earn money outside of competitive breeding and tourneys (Bingo, Pickup, Hunts, HAs, etc.) which allows non-donors to make up the difference with patience.

Then what are the problems with Pay to Win?
While many will point those with this inquiry to Mojang's EULA which forbids the sale of in-game advantages, this dainty document has not been enforced for many years. It is unlikely, but not impossible that Microsoft (the company that bought Mojang shortly after the EULA was updated) will persecute servers that break these terms. However, I believe a dangerous precedent is being set. The success of Complex Gaming may inspire other pixelmon servers to adopt similar methods of micro-transactions and set a standard.

What's the point of this rant?
I really don't remember, I started the draft this morning and just wanted to finish flushing my thoughts out.
 

AncientOne

New member
If you think spending money on the donor store provides any competitive edge to players in tournaments on Pixelmon, you clearly do not do well in them or play enough to understand the competitive scene. They have made it very fair for non-donors to have an equal chance of doing well in them with pay to win players. For example, legends are banned, so players cannot simply buy legends with lunar/ultra keys and max iv mod them. Battles are most fought with non-legend BP pokemon, which are relatively easy to obtain for donors and non-donors alike, with the exception of battle bond greninja. Your claim that real money provides an "enormous advantage" for those who compete in tournaments is entirely untrue. I recommend you try out a few tournaments first, see what pokemon most players are using, then revise your thoughts about exactly what part is unfair. You are the first person I ever met who has ranted about pay to win in the competitive battling scene.
 

Pinches

New member
@AncientOne
You have made a detailed counter-argument to my original post and I would like to disagree with some of your points.
If you think spending money on the donor store provides any competitive edge to players in tournaments on Pixelmon
In my opinion, donor store items like: Max IV Mods, Millions of Pokedollars, and Tokens do provide a large advantage.
Granted, it is my fault for not specifying their uses as evidence in my original post. However, here I will extend that part of my original post:
  • Max IV Mods allow players to give any Pokemon (afaik) 100% IVs. This is an advantage because this item eliminates the need for breeding. As a result, they don't have to bother with the irritating process of breeding genderless Pokemon like Beldum, Porygon, Rotom, etc.
  • Since these players have perfect IV versions of these pokemon, this gives them much more more choice in team composition, which is definitely an advantage

  • As for millions of Pokedollars, I can definitely see how you believe it doesn't provide that much of a competitive advantage
  • However, money can be used to purchase all manner of items, Pokemon, and miscellaneous things.

  • Tokens do provide quite an advantage by allowing players to change IVs, nature, and even make Pokemon HAs
  • With freedom to change IVs, nature and HAs instantly, even mid-tournament, tokens do provide an advantage in the competitive scene

you clearly do not do well in them or play enough to understand the competitive scene.
Well I had this part written in my original post which you either skimmed or neglected to consider
Personally, I am a completely Free to Play (F2P) player and I have competed in and won several tournaments. I know that with hard work you can obtain a good competitive record.
If you would like more information, I have had over 30 million pokedollars on Sapphire and started playing around last October. I bred a ton of different BP Pokemon with natures, egg moves, whatnot, and have placed well in many tourneys. Outside of pixelmon, I used to frequent Pokemon Showdown a lot.

They have made it very fair for non-donors to have an equal chance of doing well in them with pay to win players. For example, legends are banned, so players cannot simply buy legends with lunar/ultra keys and max iv mod them. Battles are most fought with non-legend BP pokemon,
Well I find this part a little odd because I admit this point in my original post.
This server has made some commendable choices to make the competitive scene much more friendly to non-donors
Now it is definitely my fault for not providing specific examples again and you did well to state them.

You are the first person I ever met who has ranted about pay to win in the competitive battling scene.
By "the competitive battling scene", I assume you are talking about Pokemon Battling as a whole, which I would argue is drastically different than Pixelmon Battling. In my opinion, it does not make sense to treat the two as the same. "National Dex OU" is the closest format to Pixelmon tournaments but there are still many differences: certain legends being allowed, certain certain megas banned, bugs in pixelmon, etc.

If you are not talking about Pokemon Battling as a whole, then I am very surprised that you have not seen anyone else on this server talk about it.

Perhaps I overstated the value of max IV mods, pokedollars, and tokens in my original post
The last three items I mentioned that could be purchased with real money provide an enormous advantage for these people.
But it seems like you believe the donor shop provides no competitive advantage whatsoever, which I firmly disagree with.
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to say that tourney results are dependent on or linked to whether or not someone is a donor, all the competitive advantages that donors receive can be obtained through regular gameplay.
 

vP_ug

New member
buying pokedollars, masterballs, max ivs, tokens and any other shit isnt even that good, bassicaly a rip off just grind with trades
 

PlatinumEagle

New member
buying pokedollars, masterballs, max ivs, tokens and any other shit isnt even that good, bassicaly a rip off just grind with trades
Popping in to say that I don't think the argument is that for example, $5 for 1mil (nature mods) is a rip off... or ranks, etc. However, the point is that paying gives you a distinct advantage. If money isn't an issue to you, you get items, money, ranks, and more with no effort or anything put into the game at all. That part isn't really up for debate.

What is up for debate is the setting of precedent. I'm just gonna come out and say it:
No. If anything, I don't think Complex is setting any real kind of precedent unlike the thousands of servers that have come before it. Any decently-sized servers run on these purchases and have been since the beginning... it's really nothing new. As far as I'm aware, this has gone for Pixelmon servers, too. I entirely disagree here. If Mojang ever took action for whatever reason, it wouldn't be because of Complex, or whatever servers Complex has "inspired."
 
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