TheRealSagtot
New member
Okay so I already posted this in factions chat in the discord but I also wanted to post it here for anyone who may not have seen it. Since, I made this some things have been changed about the server and I may have made some mistakes in what and was not available from shop as I didn't have a full economy spreadsheet and I'm only human. Also this was in response to someone else's message so the first line doesn't really make sense on it's own but I'm just going to post it as it is.
Yeah the point is about progression not the spawners themselves. If you can buy them then they're an investment that can be lost but can generate profit exponentially this profit can be used to increase your value further or it can be spent on higher quality items such as good gear, TNT, Creeper Eggs, God apples, Wither Skulls, and better spawners.
If the only way to get them in the first place is to find naturally generated ones then the choices are running around until you get lucky mining or raiding. Now this sounds fine on the surface however, there are some serious problems with this method for obtaining spawners under the current server model.
1) The low drop rate of spawners. This will cause issues for raiding as people will have fewer spawners overall. This means the chances of getting no return on a raid due to the low drop rate dramatically increases. As well as this, the amount of bases with spawners is going to be lower with only low quality spawners being available in most. This means that the quality of raids is going to decrease.
2) The removal of TNT from the shop. Yes it is possible to buy the components gunpowder and sand, however with gunpowder costing $65 per, the cost for a single piece of TNT is $433 (a roughly 6* increase from last map). This puts the cost per dub of TNT at $1.5Million. This means that buying the resources for TNT cannoning large bases is essentially impossible especially given the lack of money making spawners. As such, even with the increased value of any particular spawner the TNT cost for any serious raid will be far greater than any return on investment. Discouraging raiding in this manner should not be done on factions servers. Please note, this leaves crates and kits as possibly the only viable way to get large quantities of TNT(Hmmmmmmmmm). While wither skulls are an alternative, they are extremely time consuming to obtain and wither raiding yields significantly less dropped spawners than TNT raiding making the return on any raid involving withers essentially 0. Further exacerbating problem 1).
3) You can’t raid during grace and you can’t raid decent bases until your set-up. As such, raiding spawners isn’t really a viable strategy until you're already established meaning that especially in the beginning*** people are going to be stuck mining trying to find the few spawners X-rayer’s missed.
Unfortunately the method of mining until you find spawners isn’t much better if better at all. The problem resides simply in cheaters. Using ChestESP a cheater could quickly obtain large quantities of naturally occuring spawners. By doing this not only do they give themselves an unfair advantage but they also reduce the number of spawners left for legitimate players to find. Since legitimate players can’t see where has been x-ray tunneled they won’t even be able to target regions that still contain natural spawners. Putting your hard working legitimate players at such a disadvantage to cheaters really isn’t a good idea. So with this model for obtaining spawners people who play legit find barely any and the few players that cheat end up being rewarded loads for little effort.
With the removal of so many high tier items from the shop such as TNT, enchants and spawners money is now useless for everything except the f top.** Which depending on your hours played is probably going to pay like £0.4/hr. (Cba to elaborate on this more I’ve been typing for a while you get the idea I hope)
So the point about spawners isn't oh no I can't get spawners what should I do. It's without these basic things in the shop there is literally no need for money as it doesn't grant you access to late game items. This means there isn't a proper grind. This is because even if you grind out to get spawners, they don't further your value in a meaningful way. As they cannot help you obtain more of the high tier items in factions, better spawners, TNT, and better gear, or other things of value. Instead they simply allow you to tick the f top number up so you can get that *All important* f top prize.
Of course things such as better spawners and TNT and creeper eggs can be obtained under the new Complex model, however, rather than through hard work and skill of players, it is by voting, and buycraft. This is the principal objection. Creating a server where things such as spawners were a rarity could be an interesting and new twist on the factions gamemode. However, simply replacing the classical skill based approach with a low-skill approach that is beneficial to the server is not that interesting twist to the factions gamemode.
A Final note, voting and donating are both good for the server owners personally as they help to boost the revenue I really would like to not see these changes in such a cynical light, however given what they encourage and who it benefits I would struggle to take the good faith position.
My messages afterwards in addendum to the discord:
I've since noticed farming has been added and so have creeper eggs (I don't think they were there before) so my comments specifically regarding those are outdated
And TNT has now been added
TNT is $325 Stil incredibly expensive
Also a final note gapples are avaliable from shop but are incredibly expensive. Maybe this will work for balance purposes as Gap spam was a problem but given the high price and low selling prices I did include them in items that were not in shop
Yeah the point is about progression not the spawners themselves. If you can buy them then they're an investment that can be lost but can generate profit exponentially this profit can be used to increase your value further or it can be spent on higher quality items such as good gear, TNT, Creeper Eggs, God apples, Wither Skulls, and better spawners.
If the only way to get them in the first place is to find naturally generated ones then the choices are running around until you get lucky mining or raiding. Now this sounds fine on the surface however, there are some serious problems with this method for obtaining spawners under the current server model.
1) The low drop rate of spawners. This will cause issues for raiding as people will have fewer spawners overall. This means the chances of getting no return on a raid due to the low drop rate dramatically increases. As well as this, the amount of bases with spawners is going to be lower with only low quality spawners being available in most. This means that the quality of raids is going to decrease.
2) The removal of TNT from the shop. Yes it is possible to buy the components gunpowder and sand, however with gunpowder costing $65 per, the cost for a single piece of TNT is $433 (a roughly 6* increase from last map). This puts the cost per dub of TNT at $1.5Million. This means that buying the resources for TNT cannoning large bases is essentially impossible especially given the lack of money making spawners. As such, even with the increased value of any particular spawner the TNT cost for any serious raid will be far greater than any return on investment. Discouraging raiding in this manner should not be done on factions servers. Please note, this leaves crates and kits as possibly the only viable way to get large quantities of TNT(Hmmmmmmmmm). While wither skulls are an alternative, they are extremely time consuming to obtain and wither raiding yields significantly less dropped spawners than TNT raiding making the return on any raid involving withers essentially 0. Further exacerbating problem 1).
3) You can’t raid during grace and you can’t raid decent bases until your set-up. As such, raiding spawners isn’t really a viable strategy until you're already established meaning that especially in the beginning*** people are going to be stuck mining trying to find the few spawners X-rayer’s missed.
Unfortunately the method of mining until you find spawners isn’t much better if better at all. The problem resides simply in cheaters. Using ChestESP a cheater could quickly obtain large quantities of naturally occuring spawners. By doing this not only do they give themselves an unfair advantage but they also reduce the number of spawners left for legitimate players to find. Since legitimate players can’t see where has been x-ray tunneled they won’t even be able to target regions that still contain natural spawners. Putting your hard working legitimate players at such a disadvantage to cheaters really isn’t a good idea. So with this model for obtaining spawners people who play legit find barely any and the few players that cheat end up being rewarded loads for little effort.
With the removal of so many high tier items from the shop such as TNT, enchants and spawners money is now useless for everything except the f top.** Which depending on your hours played is probably going to pay like £0.4/hr. (Cba to elaborate on this more I’ve been typing for a while you get the idea I hope)
So the point about spawners isn't oh no I can't get spawners what should I do. It's without these basic things in the shop there is literally no need for money as it doesn't grant you access to late game items. This means there isn't a proper grind. This is because even if you grind out to get spawners, they don't further your value in a meaningful way. As they cannot help you obtain more of the high tier items in factions, better spawners, TNT, and better gear, or other things of value. Instead they simply allow you to tick the f top number up so you can get that *All important* f top prize.
Of course things such as better spawners and TNT and creeper eggs can be obtained under the new Complex model, however, rather than through hard work and skill of players, it is by voting, and buycraft. This is the principal objection. Creating a server where things such as spawners were a rarity could be an interesting and new twist on the factions gamemode. However, simply replacing the classical skill based approach with a low-skill approach that is beneficial to the server is not that interesting twist to the factions gamemode.
A Final note, voting and donating are both good for the server owners personally as they help to boost the revenue I really would like to not see these changes in such a cynical light, however given what they encourage and who it benefits I would struggle to take the good faith position.
My messages afterwards in addendum to the discord:
I've since noticed farming has been added and so have creeper eggs (I don't think they were there before) so my comments specifically regarding those are outdated
And TNT has now been added
TNT is $325 Stil incredibly expensive
Also a final note gapples are avaliable from shop but are incredibly expensive. Maybe this will work for balance purposes as Gap spam was a problem but given the high price and low selling prices I did include them in items that were not in shop